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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro View Post
    I saw you posted James and was about to wind you up by saying "are you not going to explain with a quote from one of your essays?" and then...
    I'm trying to work out whether you're having a go at me or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by maiLzo View Post
    I think there are more references in that extract than I do in a whole essay Need to up my game
    I think it's more a case of me needing to get a life.
    Quote Originally Posted by PES for life View Post
    mourinho

    eat a penis, then stick it up ure anus

  2. #17
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    PSN ID: Retro21
    I'm not sure either No, not really, just quite funny coincidence
    Quote Originally Posted by 99doogs
    Dinosaurs would have raised hell in today's world and arguably caused as much carnage as some of the bigger wars in histroy
    There are 10 types of people in the world: those that understand binary, and those that don't...

    Graphic Novels / Photobucket / B3ta / QDB quotes / Cheap games / Football on TV

  3. #18
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    Haha I genuinely don't think I've done it more than once or twice.

    That said if I don't stop posting about either my sexual obliviousness or extracts from my essay my (obviously frightning) online reputation is going to plummet.
    Quote Originally Posted by PES for life View Post
    mourinho

    eat a penis, then stick it up ure anus

  4. #19
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    All speech should be free no matter what the subject or intent.

  5. #20
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    It’s potentially more dangerous to suppress a controversial point of view than it is to just let it go.

    When you suppress something, you make it more alluring. You give it outlaw appeal. You also reinforce the resolve of the people who hold that point of view, who tend to see themselves as lone voices of reason speaking out against injustice.

    “This is the information they don’t want you to hear!”

    It’s a common refrain among conspiracy theorists, extremists and various other fringe groups. And not without reason. There is a common perception that if information is withheld from you, it must be valuable information. Access to that information therefore grants you a certain “privilege”. It sets you apart from the “sheeple”, who don’t know any better.

    In this way, the English Defence League can convince themselves that are battling injustice to save their country. As opposed to the rather more mundane reality: that they are a purposeless, thinly organised cadre of thugs who want a good excuse to kick off. The 9/11 and Illuminati conspiracy theorists can convince themselves that a single, all powerful cabal of unimaginable evil is responsible for all of the world’s wrongs. If you know what it is, presumably you can bring it down. The radical Muslims can convince themselves that the decadent West is responsible for all of the woes of the Middle East. Against that backdrop, any act of terror carried out against the West becomes justifiable.

    When you attempt to suppress an extremist point of view, you ultimately play into their hands. “They are trying to shut us up because we are right!” You are offering them validation; confirming that they are acting righteously against a tyranny that wants to stamp them out.

    Validation through imagined victimisation is not even exclusive to fringe groups. It happens in mainstream political discourse. Every right wing conservative likes to believe that there is a socialist conspiracy actively destroying the foundation of society. This, despite the fact that right wing conservative governments have dominated pretty much every western style democracy in the world for generations. Many white males believe themselves to be marginalised in modern society, despite the fact that they still, overwhelmingly, occupy all the positions of wealth and power. Most members of the general public believe that there is some sort of grand conspiracy of “political correctness” that is determined to ban Christmas, hand out wads of cash to dark skinned immigrants and take away their right to raise their children as they see fit. All of these things are demonstrably false, yet believed implicitly nonetheless.

    The point being, that belief is cemented through perceived victimisation. You want a cause to be taken seriously? Well try to ban it! Put somebody in prison for it! Kill somebody for it! People will start taking it very seriously indeed.

    Nobody pays much attention to the lunatic standing on the soapbox in the town square. He’s harmless. But send in the police to take him out with billy clubs, and people will suddenly pay attention.

    By the same token, you ban that radical Muslim cleric from spouting his extremist views in public, and you give him ammunition. Well look! To his impressionable followers, this immediately validates everything he was saying about the tyranny of the West! They’re trying to censor us! We need to fight back!

    So let them spout away. Let the lunatics, extremists, fanatics, morons, race supremacists and conspiracy theorists peddle as much nonsense as it please them to. Get their views out into the public forum where they can be openly debated, refuted and ridiculed. Most of the discourse will become harmlessly absorbed in the diaspora of conflicting mass information that constitutes modern life. This is why free market democracies have ultimately been far more successful in suppressing dissidence than any banana republic dictatorship. They suppress dissidence by not suppressing it. They let it go and then absorb it into the mainstream fabric, like an ever expanding extraterrestrial blob in a Steve McQueen B movie.
    Last edited by RobertD; 29-03-2012 at 04:26 AM.

  6. #21
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    PSN ID: mistertea75
    I can't think about free speech without thinking of Coogan's hilarious parody of the ludicrous situation in the 80s when Sinn Fein members words were voiced by actors.
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    Formerly MrTinmypocket

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTinmypocket View Post
    I can't think about free speech without thinking of Coogan's hilarious parody of the ludicrous situation in the 80s when Sinn Fein members words were voiced by actors.
    Oh, from The Day Today?

    "The Sinn Fein spokesman will be on helium so as to detract credibility from his statement."

  8. #23
    Retired Referee Curveball Champion

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    Quote Originally Posted by greasychipbutty View Post
    When I read something like the Twitter feed @DukeGuy posted I want the guy carted off to prison asap (in this case I think the guy's just a troll but there are any number of similar, real cases).
    Chet Walken right? Got to be honest I find it hilarious because you'd have to be a complete plank to not understand that it's just trolling.

  9. #24
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    That's what I meant by "like that" because there are any number of people who honestly are like that, that aren't trolling.

  10. #25
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    Meant to put this in the last post but it's the humour that Sacha Baron Cohen uses to great effect to highlight how terribly backwards these people are.

  11. #26
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    PSN ID: mistertea75
    Quote Originally Posted by greasychipbutty View Post
    Oh, from The Day Today?

    "The Sinn Fein spokesman will be on helium so as to detract credibility from his statement."
    That's the one. Hilarious stuff.

    I'm an advocate of free speech until the one man publicity machine George Galloway starts talking and then I start doubting my liberal nature.
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  12. #27
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    The problem with letting those with truly hateful things to say is that sadly some will listen. The recruitment of young Muslims is due in part because others are able to preach to them about the decadent West and how the infidels must die. These could be very law abiding, young, peaceful Muslim lads who are simply chipped away at by the extremists.

    Personally I think all the extremist Muslims and members of EDL/BNP/Combat 18 should be put on an Island somewhere and left to sort it out, Islamic Death Rays et al. It would prove to both sides that they were in the right and they can hopefully wipe each other out of existence and leave the rest of us to get on furthering mankind.

    To a lesser extent, the same could be said for members of various religions going door to door or preaching in town centres. They have a very low hit rate but someone, somewhere is at their lowest ebb and can be moulded to "see the light". I dated a Christian girl for 6 months and saw first hand how they recruit through fear, peer pressure and tyranny.
    Last edited by StannyUK; 30-03-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by StannyUK View Post
    The problem with letting those with truly hateful things to say is that sadly some will listen.
    I was debating the free-speech/no platform issue with someone recently and this was basically their justification for actively opposing the EDL marches & BNP appearances that have been happening over the past few years. I put it to him that you should counter hate speech/racism with logic, which we sort of saw when Nick Griffin made his high profile appearance on Question Time. The guy I discussed this with believed that this was ineffective because by then it may be too late for people and I can understand his point considering how impressionable people can be.

    I lean towards quite open free speech laws, partly because it is so difficult to legislate against. Firstly you have to decide where to draw the line, is it at anything...

    (i) Offensive/Insulting (e.g. Racism or homophobia)
    (ii) Dangerous/Corrupting (e.g. Encouraging people to become a political/religious extremist)
    (ii) Threatening (e.g. Verbal assault "I'll knock you out")

    I think most people support the idea that threatening language such as verbal assault should be illegal, but then arguably there are people who might feel threatened to hear a public speaker say something disparaging about their race/background/beliefs as they're walking past. I think this is where the law struggles and at the moment it is arguable that the net is cast too wide.

    I remember reading this article recently about the s.5 of the Public Order Act, in effect it criminalises 'insulting language', it's being consulted over by the Government though given the of the criticism it has received. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blic-order-act

  14. #29
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    Xbox Live Gamertag: Basarili PSN ID: Basarili
    I think, don't say anything bad about a person or a whole group unless you want them to say the same bad things to you too. If you can handle the pressure then you can do it, but don't forget that the same or different bad things can be said about yourself as well.

    The best free speech is to say something about a person or a whole group without offending those people to whom you're free speech is aimed at.

    Lets not forget that respect should be put on the scale as well when you're having a free speech.
    Note to myself ''Club Alto in London''

  15. #30
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    PSN ID: witchfinder91
    Not really sure if anyone knows or cares, but the government's attempt to deport well-know terrorist baddie Abu Qatada was rejected today by the court of appeals: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...resa-may-loses

    I think this is the correct decision, and I'm genuinely delighted that the court made it, but I can't help but feel deep unease at a lot of the comments I've read today. Obviously I shouldn't read too much in to what morons on the internet say, and the even the Guardian - let alone whatever the hell I've read on the Daily Telegraph - comment section is always swamped in vile bigotry and thinly veiled racism whenever any topic involving Islam comes up. But at the same time, it is deeply disturbing that there is this reactionary backlash to the decision, and it isn't a stretch to see a significant amount of the population agreeing with it. I've lost track of the number of times I've read or heard people say that the government should extrajudically murder Qatada, or completely ignore the decison of the courts and do whatever the hell it likes. It's such a stupid thing to believe, and frankly I'm spoiling for an argument with someone who thinks that way, but it really unnerves me.


 
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