Welcome to the PESFan - Pro Evolution Soccer Fansite.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41
  1. #1
    Part Timer

    Join Date:

    Sep 2017

    Location:

    London

    Supports:

    Borussia Dortmund

    Posts:

    125

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    Why The Experience System Is Broken Above Level 50

    Yo
    So I have been compiling data on how much exp is needed to increase players to different levels. I have now cracked the last part which was working out how the progression went after level 37. I now have 21 players at level 46 or higher so this has been checked. Also, for reasons which will become important, I have done this with players from Ratings of 68 to 74.

    Up to level 6 is a bit mental, but after this it settles into a pretty easy pattern. Every 3 levels, the increase in exp needed between each level doubles. So for example for a 70 rated (at level 30) to go from level 6 to level 7 is 168 exp, an increase of 6 from the 162 exp it takes to get from 5 to 6. To get from 9 to 10, the increase is 12 (from 180 to 192).

    This happens all the way up until level 30 at which point the experience needed resets. The number it resets to is the increase in exp needed from 28-29 to 29-30. If you follow the maths through you'll see that in the case of 70 rated players, this is 768 (3, 6, 12, 24, 48, 96, 192, 384, 768). The increase then drops to half this number. So from 30-31 is 768, it then increase 384 so from 31 to 32 you need 1152.

    At level 37 we start the beginning of the major issue with level increase in PES. At level 37 the increase becomes 480. (Note this is 384 +96, in other words, 9th+7th amount in the sequence of increase). From here it does not change. This has dire consequences for the amount of exp required at the higher levels.

    At this point I will also point out that the increase of exp between ratings is uniform. The increase between each rating to get from level 30 to 31 is 50.5 (the numbers aren't always whole but are rounded). What this also means is that you can extrapolate the data of total experience needed between each rating of player.

    So what does this mean in general. Let's stick with the 70 rated player. To get a level 1 player to level 30 requires 27,186 experience. To get that player from level 30 to level 60 requires 218,880 experience. To go from 60 to 90 requires 649,440 experience.

    As you can see the increase becomes entirely untenable. What this means is that in order to get a player like Ryan Sessegnon to his max level of 91, you will require 924,594 experience.

    So now we need context for experience. Experience in matches is gained is a very structured way but is based on a completely bollocks in game system;
    Exp is based of ratings at the end of the game. Every minute played in normal time adds one experience to the base total of a player. For every .5 rating above 6.0 a player receives, their exp will be multiplied by 0.5. So say your striker gets a few goals, gets a rating of 7.5, they will get 225 experience. However this is also effected by comparative team rating. For every star rating higher the team you are playing against is, you get an extra 2x multiplier. So if you are 2 star and the team you are playing is 4 star, you will get 270 experience.

    So lets be kind and say that Moise Kean for example, can average 180 exp a game. On pure games alone he would need 4,947 games. At 15 minutes a game, 1,237 hours. 10 hours per day, 124 days. 4 months. Of playing every game. 10 hours a day.
    Now thats not taking into account trainers which is fair enough but even if you ploughed every scout and spent all GP made on agents and then turned them into trainers and solely trained Moise Kean, it would still take 990 games. or a measly 21 days of playing 10 hours a day.

    This system also scales up, Mbappe for example. To get him to level 75 requires 892,206 experience. So fair play to those who got him there but bloody hell!

    For me this system is still set up for level 50 cap. There should be another reset either at level 50 or 60. I don't want to make it easy to get cheap high rated players but it shouldnt be unobtainable which, even for the avid player, I believe this is. A reset at level 60 would mean that all but 8 players would require less than 500k experience to max out.

    TL;DR Experience needs an overhaul as 900k to max a player is too much


  2. #2
    1st Team Regular

    Join Date:

    Nov 2014

    Location:

    Back in delightful Warrington

    Supports:

    don't follow soccer

    Posts:

    6,082

    vCash
    750
    Reputation

    Excellent find, excellent research.

  3. The following user likes this post:


  4. #3
    Part Timer

    Join Date:

    Oct 2016

    Location:

    USA

    Supports:

    none

    Posts:

    180

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    This is why, after leveling up Mbappe, I got rid of Donnarumma. Basically poured all of my trainers into him for a few months, which included a fair amount of special agent discards when going after legends. Mbappe was probably worth it, but it's not worth it to do it again for a GK.

  5. #4
    Semi Pro

    Join Date:

    Nov 2016

    Location:

    Egypt

    Supports:

    Liverpool FC

    Posts:

    306

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    PS3 Gamer Tag: urdaredevil
    I do believe that PES 2017 in leveling was much easier!
    I checked my 2017 account, i had more than 40 players above lvl 40! and i quit game at this time last year
    now what i have got? only 18 players above 39!!
    I hope they do this 3*ex campaign, i will kill it!
    Last edited by SamirGouda95; 10-01-2018 at 07:33 PM.

  6. The following user likes this post:


  7. #5
    Youth Team

    Join Date:

    Apr 2016

    Location:

    Mexico

    Supports:

    XBOX

    Posts:

    987

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    First, thanks for your hard work.

    Now a question for everyone. Let's say that Konami makes a system in which it is easy to gain XP. For simplicity, let's say that it always takes 1,000 XP to move up one level. Would it make any practical difference?

    I often think it's just a placebo. For example, I was going to play a SIM game and by mistake I played vs. COM. I think it was Top Player stronger.
    My team consisted of 6 random white ball players, 1 bronze 58, 3 silvers and 1 gold 84. Little to no stamina and I think 7 of the players were out of their positions (i.e., a 79 rated LWF playing as a 70 rated CMF). TS must have been under 70, and I did not look at the arrows.. The game did not feel challenging at all, except for a few minutes in which I could not do a thing and received a goal. It was still an easy win.

    I haven't played PES 2018 that much, but got the chance to use Ronaldo and Beckham in one Co-op match. It was nothing special.
    On PES 2017 I remember using Maradona, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, CR7, Messi and others at level 50. Sometimes they performed worse than when they were less developed and I had a weaker team. Getting them and developing them felt like a waste of time and effort.

    With the poor programming, script, poor AI, stats that don't always translate to the pitch, irrelevant TS and arrows, inconsistency, etc., does it really make any significant difference to have better players and develop them?

    I've only been playing since PES 2016, and for the first time I don't care about having BBs or developing my players. A decent team with silvers and golds (and maybe a couple of BBs) seems to work fine for me, but as I said, I no longer play PES that much. Any thoughts?

  8. The following user likes this post:


  9. #6
    Trialist

    Join Date:

    Dec 2017

    Location:

    BSAS

    Supports:

    BIELSA

    Posts:

    15

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    dude that was too much, im not sure i got it right all of it.
    can you make a table?
    all i got for sure is that you need 990.000 points of experience to get at max, so if i got all my players to max level 80 is certanly impossible!!!

  10. #7
    Semi Pro

    Join Date:

    Nov 2016

    Location:

    Egypt

    Supports:

    Liverpool FC

    Posts:

    306

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    PS3 Gamer Tag: urdaredevil
    I can't understand, how on earth experience base is only 90 when playing online!
    does it get higher if you played lvl 2 TS against higher levels?

  11. #8
    Semi Pro

    Join Date:

    Nov 2016

    Location:

    Egypt

    Supports:

    Liverpool FC

    Posts:

    306

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    PS3 Gamer Tag: urdaredevil
    Quote Originally Posted by KAZOO3211 View Post
    dude that was too much, im not sure i got it right all of it.
    can you make a table?
    all i got for sure is that you need 990.000 points of experience to get at max, so if i got all my players to max level 80 is certanly impossible!!!
    don't even think about that. i look for players where they are at their peak at 50 maybe 60 for bronze/white
    only kean is lvl 63 and i plan to get him to 67 and that's it
    If you are loaded with money, spend $1000 and train then

  12. #9
    Trialist

    Join Date:

    Jun 2017

    Location:

    Belgium

    Supports:

    Belgium

    Posts:

    11

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    I like it this way as I already have max level Mbappe Sanches & Rashford all three only took a month each to become max.

  13. #10
    Star Player

    Join Date:

    Oct 2003

    Location:

    Cummar - Nan - Alt

    Supports:

    The Janscan 5 Million

    Posts:

    14,726

    vCash
    750
    Reputation

    Wii Gamer Tag: coming soon! 360 Gamer Tag:
  Curdstar75 PS3 Gamer Tag: Curdstar75
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAFifaConvert View Post
    Yo
    So I have been compiling data on how much exp is needed to increase players to different levels. I have now cracked the last part which was working out how the progression went after level 37. I now have 21 players at level 46 or higher so this has been checked. Also, for reasons which will become important, I have done this with players from Ratings of 68 to 74.

    Up to level 6 is a bit mental, but after this it settles into a pretty easy pattern. Every 3 levels, the increase in exp needed between each level doubles. So for example for a 70 rated (at level 30) to go from level 6 to level 7 is 168 exp, an increase of 6 from the 162 exp it takes to get from 5 to 6. To get from 9 to 10, the increase is 12 (from 180 to 192).

    This happens all the way up until level 30 at which point the experience needed resets. The number it resets to is the increase in exp needed from 28-29 to 29-30. If you follow the maths through you'll see that in the case of 70 rated players, this is 768 (3, 6, 12, 24, 48, 96, 192, 384, 768). The increase then drops to half this number. So from 30-31 is 768, it then increase 384 so from 31 to 32 you need 1152.

    At level 37 we start the beginning of the major issue with level increase in PES. At level 37 the increase becomes 480. (Note this is 384 +96, in other words, 9th+7th amount in the sequence of increase). From here it does not change. This has dire consequences for the amount of exp required at the higher levels.

    At this point I will also point out that the increase of exp between ratings is uniform. The increase between each rating to get from level 30 to 31 is 50.5 (the numbers aren't always whole but are rounded). What this also means is that you can extrapolate the data of total experience needed between each rating of player.

    So what does this mean in general. Let's stick with the 70 rated player. To get a level 1 player to level 30 requires 27,186 experience. To get that player from level 30 to level 60 requires 218,880 experience. To go from 60 to 90 requires 649,440 experience.

    As you can see the increase becomes entirely untenable. What this means is that in order to get a player like Ryan Sessegnon to his max level of 91, you will require 924,594 experience.

    So now we need context for experience. Experience in matches is gained is a very structured way but is based on a completely bollocks in game system;
    Exp is based of ratings at the end of the game. Every minute played in normal time adds one experience to the base total of a player. For every .5 rating above 6.0 a player receives, their exp will be multiplied by 0.5. So say your striker gets a few goals, gets a rating of 7.5, they will get 225 experience. However this is also effected by comparative team rating. For every star rating higher the team you are playing against is, you get an extra 2x multiplier. So if you are 2 star and the team you are playing is 4 star, you will get 270 experience.

    So lets be kind and say that Moise Kean for example, can average 180 exp a game. On pure games alone he would need 4,947 games. At 15 minutes a game, 1,237 hours. 10 hours per day, 124 days. 4 months. Of playing every game. 10 hours a day.
    Now thats not taking into account trainers which is fair enough but even if you ploughed every scout and spent all GP made on agents and then turned them into trainers and solely trained Moise Kean, it would still take 990 games. or a measly 21 days of playing 10 hours a day.

    This system also scales up, Mbappe for example. To get him to level 75 requires 892,206 experience. So fair play to those who got him there but bloody hell!

    For me this system is still set up for level 50 cap. There should be another reset either at level 50 or 60. I don't want to make it easy to get cheap high rated players but it shouldnt be unobtainable which, even for the avid player, I believe this is. A reset at level 60 would mean that all but 8 players would require less than 500k experience to max out.

    TL;DR Experience needs an overhaul as 900k to max a player is too much
    Thanks for this. I have ways and means of getting this feedback to the big boys.

    I too feel the levelling system needs looked at. Levelling is a fantastic idea in principle and should in theory result in great diversity in teams you can face. Basically a good levelling system would see users invest more in different types of players, if they feel they can realistically get a favourite or cult type player nearer their level cap. This is not happening bar the silver ballers, and even then it is too small a pool from those silver ballers you see getting used out in the wild. How many Kimpembe's? How many Sanches'? How many Poulsens do we come across online? A silly amount is the answer.

    I get that some silver ball players are going to better than others and word gets out, but using PESdb you see so many with potential to transform into solid gold, same with bronze's, but I rarely come across the variety that a good levelling system should offer. Young white ball players should be able to be levelled up beyond 80 by default too.

    I'm not saying it should be a stroll to get players up to their full over-levelled potential, but it should be more attainable than it is currently. 3x exp multiplier for a limited time ain't going to make to much of a dent.

    Anyway, thanks again for the research and effort put in.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
    ''Ronaldo takes free kicks like a robot with titanium enforced limbs launching ordnance at an insurgent village 100 miles away.''

  14. #11
    Part Timer

    Join Date:

    Sep 2017

    Location:

    London

    Supports:

    Borussia Dortmund

    Posts:

    125

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by SamirGouda95 View Post
    I can't understand, how on earth experience base is only 90 when playing online!
    does it get higher if you played lvl 2 TS against higher levels?
    Online is different as some competitions give you multipliers. If you go into an online cup, you can easily come up against higher rated opponents. This will increase the exp.

  15. The following user likes this post:


  16. #12
    Trialist

    Join Date:

    Dec 2015

    Location:

    Greece

    Supports:

    Pas

    Posts:

    23

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    Excellent work!! That's what I was wondering. I made 150+ spins at Forward manager and made them trainers to Mbappe. 100+ strikers and still lvl 49.. and guys 150+ spins and only Mertens BB. 2,8% hahahahahaha!!!

  17. #13
    Semi Pro

    Join Date:

    Nov 2016

    Location:

    Egypt

    Supports:

    Liverpool FC

    Posts:

    306

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    PS3 Gamer Tag: urdaredevil
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAFifaConvert View Post
    Online is different as some competitions give you multipliers. If you go into an online cup, you can easily come up against higher rated opponents. This will increase the exp.
    does this work in divisions! i played with +1500 three times before, but didn't look at earned exp
    or do you mean difference in team level activates some multipliers?

  18. #14
    Youth Team

    Join Date:

    Apr 2016

    Location:

    Mexico

    Supports:

    XBOX

    Posts:

    987

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by pasole View Post
    Excellent work!! That's what I was wondering. I made 150+ spins at Forward manager and made them trainers to Mbappe. 100+ strikers and still lvl 49.. and guys 150+ spins and only Mertens BB. 2,8% hahahahahaha!!!
    I spun the FW agent with the gift coins and some GP I had. I also got some GP and coins from buying the Barcelona edition a couple of weeks ago. I was expecting silvers to use as trainers for Belotti and Mbappe. I decided to do another spin with GP and just got Cavani (after it landed on silver) so I'm happy about that. I probably did around 50 spins and wanted a CF, so I can't complain. I also got a few FW players on loan, so that may have helped my odds.

    I'll use today's coins for the MF agent, but I'm happy with my team.
    Now my BBs include 5 GKs, 2 CBs and Cavani. At least I was certain that I would not get another GK!

  19. #15
    Squad Player

    Join Date:

    Jul 2015

    Location:

    us

    Supports:

    spurs

    Posts:

    4,504

    vCash
    1000
    Reputation

    can someone tell me what happens if you save your levelled up players for non-myclub play. In PES 2016 and 17 I think they defauted to Lv 30 stats. same in 2018?

    [if so, long term i.e. when servers expire, i think the effort in may be worthwhile. if not, for me, it makes the effort in worthless.]


 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Level 50
    By Dummy_Runner in forum myClub
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 19-07-2017, 12:54 PM
  2. My first level 3 experience.
    By slekkas in forum myClub
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 24-04-2016, 05:38 PM
  3. What is level 50?
    By terrymac in forum myClub
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-04-2016, 10:29 AM
  4. Anyone else's 'Collision System' feel broken?
    By Lewpop90 in forum PES 2016 Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-03-2016, 06:43 AM
  5. The New Experience points system
    By ZoLA in forum General PES4 discussions
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 07-11-2004, 11:40 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks
  • Submit to Digg
  • Submit to del.icio.us
  • Submit to Blinklist
  • Submit to Technorati
  • Submit to Furl
  • Submit to Reddit
  • Submit to Newsvine
  • Submit to Facebook
  • Submit to StumbleUpon
  • Submit to Google
  • Submit to Twitter
  • Submit to Slashdot
  • Submit to Yahoo

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Logout